10:47 p.m.: Piazza returns into the field of view of a surveillance camera in the frat's "Great Hall," carried up by four brothers and placed on a couch. Well, we beat him and slapped him, what more could we do? ", After court Piazza family attorney Tom Kline said, "For the first time we saw the basement tapes which had previously never been seen in public. By the time help was called the next day, a police official said, Piazza had the look of a “corpse.” Piazza died days later. When the video started, Jim Piazza and his wife, Evelyn Piazza, left the courtroom. This is very true, they really have no good options here. What led to his death was the negligent behavior of the fraternity members after Tim was first injured. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. What happened next is described in horrific detail in a grand jury report citing evidence including surveillance video, witness testimony and phone records. Video of Penn State fraternity pledge Tim Piazza chugging vodka, beer and wine at a pledge ceremony inside the Beta Theta Pi house the night he fatally fell down the frat’s stairs was shown in court today. A response like yours is why I feared posting this. This might not be as bad as consciously deciding to delay medical treatment, but this is still something the fraternity brothers should be culpable for. Cold and hyperventilating. From trying to beat him awake, to abandoning him, to covering up the evidence, everything about this shows criminal negligence. This may actually explain why we disagree so much... Edit 2: do you have a personal connect to this? It was at this point that he was carried upstairs. They dumped water on his face and slapped him in an apparent attempt to wake him, to no avail. Third, being stupid instead of evil is not a defense for a crime. The video included him stumbling through the house before he was found, hours later, in the basement. You are asking them to think and act rationally about this, and that is something that is very difficult for grieving people to do. I don't think it serves anyone to blame the other fraternity members and act like Timothy piazza had no involvement. Plus I have been open to other view points when they have been raised. They face charges that include, for some, involuntary manslaughter and aggravated assault, while others face much less serious offenses. There was no premeditation, no joy in his suffering, I see more evil in the dad who wants to take revenge on the men in the fraternity to be honest. I guess that is what has really skewed my opinion of this whole thing. Members of the fraternity carried Piazza up the steps and put him on the couch. Piazza was flown to a hospital and died Feb. 4 of his injuries. Again, these are people who WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM BEING IN THAT CONDITION who were more concerned about the possible consequences for themselves than saving the life of a badly injured pledge. after reading this entire thread and especially all of your answers OP i’m getting the impression you are either someone (“a brother/pledge”) who was there that night, or someone with some type of intimate frat involvement to the case and timothy. Fraternity members didn’t call 911 until nearly 12 hours after his first fall. I mean, this is a very speculative statement at best. Of course the fraternity should be punished. He also was seen falling and hitting his head on the stone floor. hey, how about you let me know what you would do if you were Piazza except instead of dying, you live and you must live the rest of your life unable to move from the neck down? He's black out drunk and stumbling around, and he's just left alone? Cookies help us deliver our Services. everything that happened after he regained consciousness (although it sounds like he may have already been in debilitating pain by this point) could have been prevented if they had just given 2 shits about a person that they called a brother. Piazza's parents left the room before the video was played. I'm not hanging on tooth and nail to anything, because I'm not invested in this on a personal level. Roughly twelve hours after his initial fall, emergency services were summoned but not informed that the fall had occurred the night before. Obviously you are riding a very high horse and looking down on me. Everybody so far has been talking about either how the parent's actions are justifiable in their grief, or that the fraternity is responsible for intentionally trying to cover up his injuries and delaying medical treatment after he fell. When he finally woke up and tried to roll off, they slammed him back down, slapped him in the face and poured beer on him. I don't know, a lot of humane sensible things. Second of all, yes, victims of horrible crimes often did something stupid or unwise, which is why they were preyed upon instead of someone else who was more cautious and more difficult prey. These were supposed to be his friends. "It was just remarkable to see this chilling video taking place on a college campus.". Not calling an ambulance for an unconscious, dying person, and instead beating that person up, sounds pretty evil to me. He drank an incredibly high amount of alcohol and fell down the basement stairs and was unconscious. There's nothing really new other than the basement video. We'd like to remind you of a couple of things. Where Piazza is not at fault, where the parents have a right to be upset, and why this is a major issue at all is that the fraternity didn't seek timely medical attention that could have saved his life. Firstly, please read through our rules. I think they're acting like distraught parents struggling to cope with the death of their son even if it means distorting reality a bit and choosing to see his son in the best of lights and his frat brothers in the worst. I can honestly say that would not be how my mind would work. Sucks that you have to come in basically bullying me because we disagree. I just don't like the way this kids parents have acted at all. At about 10 a.m., fraternity members found the 19-year-old back in the basement lying on his back, breathing heavily and with blood on his face, the grand jury report said. He got up and tried to reach the front door but fell head first into it, knocking himself unconscious again. He later tried once more to descend the basement stairs, but fell down again, and remained at the base of the stairs until several of the fraternity brothers discovered him several hours later behind the bar in the basement, cold and breathing rapidly. However, I'd also like to argue that the fraternity is also legally and morally responsible for his initial intoxication. I mean, based on your logic that would be completely selfish and out of line of you. Edit: Btw, your comment completely justifies me using a throwaway. Tim was in … A fraternity is supposed to be like a second family. He continued to stand up only to repeatedly fall back down. But they are not evil. They aren't assholes. They are grieving parents looking for something to explain why their son has been killed. I sincerely doubt you know his parents or knew Timothy enough to espouse his lack of accountability. This is a footnote from the CMV moderators. Tim Piazza may have been somewhat complicit in the hazing. you are trying to grasp onto and shred of bullshit in a weak attempt at creating an underdog hero out of these narcissistic assholes. I would feel sorry for myself, but it just wouldn't cross my mind to blame anyone and everyone for the situation. This is especially true when the victim is a minor who was not used to binge drinking, and even more especially true after he's already too drunk to make good decisions. Last week Piazza's parents joined with a local state politician in announcing a new anti-hazing bill in the hopes to "change the landscape" in Pennsylvania and become a model for the nation. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! They caused his condition, then exacerbated it, then refused to get him needed care immediately. I can only imagine the anguish of being a parent, and losing your child this way. ABC News' Tom Kelly contributed to this report. Shortly before 4 a.m., after a fraternity member saw Piazza on the floor and put a blanket over him, Piazza was alone on the floor of the fraternity house. I don't see our legal system as something to be used for extracting a pound of flesh. Not one person thought to take him to the hospital??? Let's look at the Wikipedia article about the incident. Welcome to /r/Arableaks , People from all organizations, groups, and tendencies are welcome. His brothers. r/Frat: Because reddit is the anti-frat. Obviously the situation is horrible, but kids need to understand they are responsible for their actions. "I think we are f-----," he added. Here are some other articles about this story: philly.com: Judge drops most serious charges against Penn State frat brothers in Tim Piazza's death centredaily.com: Attorney General and Piazza's family attorney react to Beta Theta Pi ruling wjactv.com: Judge dismisses involuntary manslaughter charges in Beta Theta Pi case Civil attorney Tom Kline, who represents Piazza’s … No other parents have acted like this when they have lost their child in similar fashion. His parents saying he was perfect, and making it sound like he was kidnapped and tortured is misleading, and could lead to unfair punishments for a number of kids who made a horrible mistake. I see the frat members as stupid, not evil. On the night of Feb. 2, 2017, Piazza, a 19-year-old sophomore, participated in an alcohol-fueled hazing ritual at the frat house. Time goes on and he falls off the couch and when he is found off the couch still unconscious he is thrown back on the couch, slapped around and punched him in the abdomen while completely unresponsive. One person even recommended that help be contacted but was ignored and he was left on a couch. At 10:48 a.m., a fraternity member called 911. Before emergency assistance arrived, the brothers wiped blood from his face and attempted to dress him, but his body was too rigid to successfully put clothes on. Timothy Piazza Family photo On Thursday, State College Police Detective David Scicchitano testified that someone deleted basement video footage from the night in question two days after Piazza died. The reason why hazing works, and why hazing charges exist, is because peer pressure is an extremely powerful motivator. He rolled off the couch again and curled his body, clutching his abdomen. They are the sole reason he is dead. Timothy is accountable for over consuming alcohol (under severe social pressure from his Brothers, which could easily be argued as coercion). What happened to him after that, is entirely on the willful and blatant negligence of his frat brothers. And to answer your last question...no I would not file charges or sue. I don't think they're acting like assholes. I posted here because I realized my opinion on the incident is different then just about anyone elses. On the night of February 2, 2017, while undergoing hazing rituals for the fraternity, Piazza, on an essentially empty stomach, drank large amounts of alcohol in a short time as part of an obstacle course called "The Gauntlet", which required each pledge to drink from a bottle of vodka, drink a beer, and finally drink from a bag of wine. 18 and up is an adult. As no one was left around him this all went unnoticed and he was left on the floor. Upon arrival, Piazza was rushed into surgery, where he was discovered to have a ruptured spleen and class IV hemorrhagic shock. Happy CMVing! They pass around a bottle of vodka which travels up and down the line of 14 pledges three times. One former fraternity member allegedly texted his girlfriend "drink hazing can send me to jail," and "I don't want to go to jail for this,” prosecutors said. Security footage shows brothers slapping Piazza in the face, punching him in the stomach, and pouring beer on him, but he remained unconscious and unresponsive. In this attempt he managed to hit himself in the head several more times and knock himself out again. Beta Theta Pi fraternity house at Penn State. What they did was far worse than, say driving drunk and killing someone which would still be involuntary manslaughter.

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